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What Would Stoics Do

Epictetus · c. 50 – c. 135 CE

Discourses 4.1 ¶17 — Epictetus

From “About Freedom”

Translation by George Long (1877)

Epictetus, Discourses 4.1 ¶17

“Socrates then did not fare badly?”—No; but his judges and his accusers did.—“Nor did Helvidius at Rome fare badly?”—No; but his murderer did. “How do you mean?”—The same as you do when you say that a cock has not fared badly when he has gained the victory and been severely wounded; but that the cock has fared badly when he has been defeated and is unhurt; nor do you call a dog fortunate, who neither pursues game nor labors, but when you see him sweating, when you see him in pain and panting violently after running. What paradox (unusual thing) do we utter if we say that the evil in everything is that which is contrary to the nature of the thing? Is this a paradox? for do you not say this in the case of all other things? Why then in the case of man only do you think differently? But because we say that the nature of man is tame (gentle) and social and faithful, you will not say that this is a paradox? It is not—What then is it a paradox to say that a man is not hurt when he is whipped, or put in chains, or beheaded? does he not, if he suffers nobly, come off even with increased advantage and profit? But is he not hurt, who suffers in a most pitiful and disgraceful way, who in place of a man becomes a wolf, or viper or wasp?
— Epictetus, Discourses 4.1 ¶17 · tr. George Long (1877)Read in context →

Cite this passage

Epictetus, Discourses 4.1 ¶17, tr. George Long (1877)

https://whatwouldstoicsdo.com/passage/discourses/4.1.17

Epictetus, Discourses (as recorded by Arrian), tr. George Long (1877). Text: Standard Ebooks (CC0). Sources and licences

Read Book IV, Chapter 1 in context →

In plain English

AI-written notes

What harms a person is acting against their own nature, not what others do to them: Socrates and the murdered Helvidius did not fare badly, but their judges and killers did. Like a cock that wins a fight but is badly wounded, a person who suffers nobly can come out ahead, while one who turns on others like a wild animal is the one truly damaged.

Older wording

“paradox”
— a claim that sounds absurd but may be true
“tame”
— gentle and civilised

Themes and situations

  • Virtue and character
  • Adversity and hardship
  • Resilience and endurance
  • Justice and fairness
  • Courage
  • Being treated unfairly

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