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What Would Stoics Do

Cicero (on the Stoics) · 106–43 BCE

Tusculan Disputations 3 ¶31 — Cicero (on the Stoics)

From “On Grief of Mind”

Translation by C. D. Yonge (1853)

Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 3 ¶31

Now, should anyone, as the same author says, find his spirits sink with the loss of his fortune, he must apply to those grave philosophers of antiquity for relief, and not to these voluptuaries: for what great abundance of good do they promise? Suppose that we allow that to be without pain is the chief good? Yet that is not called pleasure. But it is not necessary at present to go through the whole: the question is, to what point are we to advance in order to abate our grief? Grant that to be in pain is the greatest evil: whosoever, then, has proceeded so far as not to be in pain, is he, therefore, in immediate possession of the greatest good? Why, Epicurus, do we use any evasions, and not allow in our own words the same feeling to be pleasure which you are used to boast of with such assurance? Are these your words or not? This is what you say in that book which contains all the doctrine of your school; for I will perform on this occasion the office of a translator, lest anyone should imagine that I am inventing anything. Thus you speak: “Nor can I form any notion of the chief good, abstracted from those pleasures which are perceived by taste, or from what depends on hearing music, or abstracted from ideas raised by external objects visible to the eye, or by agreeable motions, or from those other pleasures which are perceived by the whole man by means of any of his senses. Nor can it possibly be said that the pleasures of the mind are excited only by what is good, for I have perceived men’s minds to be pleased with the hopes of enjoying those things which I mentioned above, and with the idea that it should enjoy them without any interruption from pain.” And these are his exact words, so that anyone may understand what were the pleasures with which Epicurus was acquainted. Then he speaks thus, a little lower down: “I have often inquired of those who have been called wise men what would be the remaining good if they should exclude from consideration all these pleasures, unless they meant to give us nothing but words. I could never learn anything from them; and unless they choose that all virtue and wisdom should vanish and come to nothing, they must say with me that the only road to happiness lies through those pleasures which I mentioned above.” What follows is much the same, and his whole book on the chief good everywhere abounds with the same opinions. Will you, then, invite Telamon to this kind of life to ease his grief? And should you observe any one of your friends under affliction, would you rather prescribe him a sturgeon than a treatise of Socrates? or advise him to listen to the music of a water organ rather than to Plato? or lay before him the beauty and variety of some garden, put a nosegay to his nose, burn perfumes before him, and bid him crown himself with a garland of roses and woodbines? Should you add one thing more, you would certainly wipe out all his grief.
— Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 3 ¶31 · tr. C. D. Yonge (1853)Read in context →

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Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 3 ¶31, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853)

https://whatwouldstoicsdo.com/passage/tusculan-disputations/3.31

Cicero, Tusculan Disputations, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853). Text: Standard Ebooks (CC0). Sources and licences

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In plain English

AI-written notes

A polemic against Epicurus: treating a grieving or ruined friend with fine food, music, perfume and garlands would be absurd, and someone in distress needs philosophy rather than luxuries. Epicurus's own words, quoted here, tie the good life to sensory pleasures, which makes his advice a poor fit for consoling someone who has lost a fortune.

Older wording

“voluptuaries”
— people devoted to sensual pleasure
“chief good”
— the highest good, the goal of life
“nosegay”
— a small bunch of flowers

Themes and situations

  • Pleasure and pain
  • Grief and mourning
  • Virtue and character
  • Learning and progress
  • Adversity and hardship

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