Skip to content
What Would Stoics Do

Cicero (on the Stoics) · 106–43 BCE

Tusculan Disputations 4 ¶53 — Cicero (on the Stoics)

From “On Other Perturbations of the Mind”

Translation by C. D. Yonge (1853)

Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 4 ¶53

Now we see that the loves of all these writers were entirely libidinous. There have arisen also some among us philosophers (and Plato is at the head of them, whom Dicaearchus blames not without reason) who have countenanced love. The Stoics, in truth, say not only that their wise man may be a lover, but they even define love itself as an endeavor to originate friendship out of the appearance of beauty. Now, provided there is anyone in the nature of things without desire, without care, without a sigh, such a one may be a lover, for he is free from all lust—but I have nothing to say to him, as it is lust of which I am now speaking. But should there be any love—as there certainly is—which is but little, or perhaps not at all, short of madness, such as his is in the Leucadia— Should there be any God whose care I am— it is incumbent on all the Gods to see that he enjoys his amorous pleasure. Wretch that I am! Nothing is more true, and he says very appropriately, What, are you sane, who at this rate lament? He seems even to his friends to be out of his senses. Then how tragical he becomes! Thy aid, divine Apollo, I implore, And thine, dread ruler of the wat’ry store! Oh! all ye winds, assist me! He thinks that the whole world ought to apply itself to help his love; he excludes Venus alone, as unkind to him. Thy aid, O Venus, why should I invoke? He thinks Venus too much employed in her own lust to have regard to anything else, as if he himself had not said and committed these shameful things from lust.
— Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 4 ¶53 · tr. C. D. Yonge (1853)Read in context →

Cite this passage

Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 4 ¶53, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853)

https://whatwouldstoicsdo.com/passage/tusculan-disputations/4.53

Cicero, Tusculan Disputations, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853). Text: Standard Ebooks (CC0). Sources and licences

Read Book IV in context →

In plain English

AI-written notes

The Stoics allow their wise person to love only if love means seeking friendship through the appearance of beauty, free of craving, but love as most people live it comes close to madness. A play character whose lament is mocked as out of his senses is the example, expecting gods, winds and even Venus to help him while his own lust is the real cause.

Older wording

“libidinous”
— driven by sexual desire
“countenanced”
— approved of or tolerated
“incumbent”
— a duty or obligation

Themes and situations

  • Desire and craving
  • Emotions and the passions
  • Friendship

Quote cards

The opening line of this passage as an image, with its citation — for sharing or keeping.