Epictetus · c. 50 – c. 135 CE
Discourses 3.7 ¶2 — Epictetus
From “To the Administrator of the Free Cities Who Was an Epicurean”
Translation by George Long (1877)
Epictetus, Discourses 3.7 ¶2
For this reason Maximus acted foolishly if he made the voyage for any other reason than for the sake of the flesh, that is, for the sake of the best. And also a man acts foolishly if he abstains from that which belongs to others, when he is a judge (δικαστής) and able to take it. But, if you please, let us consider this only: how this thing may be done secretly, and safely, and so that no man will know it. For not even does Epicurus himself declare stealing to be bad, but he admits that detection is; and because it is impossible to have security against detection, for this reason he says, “Do not steal.” But I say to you that if stealing is done cleverly and cautiously, we shall not be detected: further also we have powerful friends in Rome both men and women, and the Hellenes (Greeks) are weak, and no man will venture to go up to Rome for the purpose (of complaining). Why do you refrain from your own good? This is senseless, foolish. But even if you tell me that you do refrain, I will not believe you. For as it is impossible to assent to that which appears false, and to turn away from that which is true, so it is impossible to abstain from that which appears good. But wealth is a good thing, and certainly most efficient in producing pleasure. Why will you not acquire wealth? And why should we not corrupt our neighbor’s wife, if we can do it without detection? and if the husband foolishly prates about the matter, why not pitch him out of the house? If you would be a philosopher such as you ought to be, if a perfect philosopher, if consistent with your own doctrines, [you must act thus]. If you would not, you will not differ at all from us who are called Stoics; for we also say one thing, but we do another: we talk of the things which are beautiful (good), but we do what is base. But you will be perverse in the contrary way, teaching what is bad, practicing what is good.
Cite this passage
Epictetus, Discourses 3.7 ¶2, tr. George Long (1877)
https://whatwouldstoicsdo.com/passage/discourses/3.7.2
Epictetus, Discourses (as recorded by Arrian), tr. George Long (1877). Text: Standard Ebooks (CC0). Sources and licences
In plain English
AI-written notesA sarcastic argument that if pleasure really is the highest good, a clever person should steal, seduce a neighbour's wife and grow rich so long as they avoid detection, which shows how unliveable that doctrine is. The speaker also admits that Stoics often preach one thing and do another, a warning about hypocrisy.
Older wording
- “Hellenes”
- — the Greeks
- “prates”
- — talks on foolishly
Themes and situations
- Justice and fairness
- Virtue and character
- Wealth and poverty
- Desire and craving
- Pride and humility
- An ethical dilemma
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